NORTHERN ROCKIES COORDINATING GROUP

September 28, 1998

Big Sky, Montana

Present:

• Jerry Williams, USDA Forest Service

• Steve Zachry, USDA Forest Service, Central Zone Representative

• Bill Breedlove, USDA Forest Service, South Central Zone Representative

• Tom Harbour, USDA Forest Service

• Rick Hafenfeld, USDI Representative

• Mark Vore, USDA Forest Service, North Idaho Zone Representative (for Byron Bonney)

• Mike Plattes, USDA Forest Service

• Bill Caldwell, DNRC, Business Committee Chairman

• Fred Van Hom, NPS, Northwest Montana Zone Representative

• John Crumb, retired NRCG Board of Director (IDL)

• Brian Shiplett, IDL

• Doug Williams, Montana Firewardens Association

• Phil Street, Fish and Wildlife

• Russ Davis, Bureau of Indian Affairs

• Mike Kopitzke, DNRC, Southwest Montana Zone Representative

• Jim Greene, Montana Department of Emergency Services

• Jerry Chapman, Bureau of Land Management, Eastern Montana Zone

• Tim Murphy, DNRC

• Dan O'Brien, National Park Service, Chairman, NRCG

• Sandy Evenson, USDA Forest Service

• Phil Perkins, National Park Service, Operations Committee Chairman

• Julie Shea, USDA Forest Service, Fire Use Committee Representative

OLD BUSINESS - Sandy Evenson

Reference Handout: Summary of Action items from April 21-22, 1998 for completed actions. Unfinished action items are:

Draft the NRCG policy on hiring falters for wildland incidents within the Northern Rockies. Publish the policy on NRCG letterhead and disseminate to Zones and overhead teams.   Status: Business Committee has drafted the policy and it is ready for NRCG review.

The Fire Service Organization Technical Specialist position description should be formally included as a supplement to the Fireline Handbook or some other established document to ensure it does not become lost. Status: Business Committee has not met yet. Still to be done.

Electronic communications were assigned to the voice and data communication task group. There are still problems and issues occurring within the Geographic Area. Brian Shiplett will convey the concerns of NRCG to the task group and ask them for reconunendations at the fall NRCG meeting. Status: Not done. Deferred to Spring 1999 meeting.

Get actual Northern Training Center cost/share numbers for NRCG Directors for review. What affect will there be on local governents? What is the billing schedule? Status: Not done.

The Incident Medical Specialist (IMS) issue needs to be revisited. NRCG has made the decision the IMS program needs to be interagency in order to utilize resources available in all agencies. Status: Operations Committee discussed at May 1998 meeting. Recommendation is to continue with the IMS program in its current format at this time. Phil Perkins and Steve Gauger will work with Paul Fieldhouse and Bobby Golden to look at the possibility of 4-person teams, configurations, using local personnel. Timeframe is to be ready with new proposals for FY 99 fire season.

The Central Montana Zone feels they are too big. Discuss possible Zone boundary configurations with the South Central Zone. Report back to NRCG following negotiations. Status: Zone has decided to remain as they are currently configured. Action completed.

Plan to hold a line officer meeting for 1 -day during the week of April 12-16, 1999. Consider holding the meeting in Coeur d'Alene or Spokane for easier access. Status: Yet to be done.

COMMITTEE REPORTS

BUSINESS COMMITTEE -Bill Caldwell

Reference Handout: Northem Rockies Fire Business Management Committee

• Business committee will resume the use of local government personnel on IMT's project started by Jack Sater
• Policy on faller qualifications and hiring has been drafted and is out for review
• Proposed 1999 work plan submitted for approval
• Work continues on Chapter 20 supplement to Fire Business Management Handbook
• The task group working on rental rate structure for engines and tenders is ongoing

OPERATIONS COMMITTEE -Phil Perkins

Reference Handout: Operations Committee Report, September 28, 1998

The Operations Committee met in February and May, 1998. Accomplishments include:

• Developed communication plan which was disseminated to all Dispatch Offices
• Developed minimum standards list for equipment (such as computers, cell phones, etc.) for IMT'S.
• Implemented new Type II Regional availability and dispatch format for IMT'S.
• Provided direction for IMS program
• Worked with Training Committee on Training needs analysis process

Ongoing work is continuing on:

• Developing a single Type II Team Operating Plan. The first pages would be a standard Northern Rockies Type II operations plan and the supplement would be individual zone rosters and communications plans
• IMS - look at the possibility of 4-person teams, configurations, using local personnel.
• Training needs analysis

FIRE USE - Julie Shea

Reference Handout: Fire Use Sub-Committee Report, 9/28/98

The Fire Use committee is just getting started. Randy Doman has been selected as the chair of the committee. The committee plans to focus on:

• Resource priorities - ways to prioritize prescribed fire and WFURB's on the same plane as suppression fires.
• Interagency cooperation/consultation

PREVENTION/INTERFACE COMMITTEE

The committee was not represented. Will be having a fall meeting.

TASK FORCE REPORT

VOICE AND DATA COMMUNICATION TASK FORCE

This group does not have a chairperson and has resisted formal organization. Although we may make light of this, the group has been chartered with some fairly significant issues.

May need to appoint a management person for the chairman. Need to also look at the management implications.

To a certain extent many of the issues we will be facing are beyond the Geographic Area.

ACTION ITEM: THE VOICE AND DATA TASK FORCE NEEDS TO IDENTIFY (BY AGENCY POSSIBLY) THE ISSUES AND GROUPS/AGENCIES THAT WELL NOT BE ABLE TO TALK TO EACH OTHER AND WHAT THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THAT WILL BE. THERE WILL BE SAFETY ISSUES. WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO AFFECT THE SOLUTION, BUT WE CAN MAKE AGENCY ADMINISTRATORS AWARE OF THE PROBLEMS WE WILL BE FACING. ASSIGNED TO: VOICE AND DATA TASK FORCE.

ZONE REPORTS

NORTH IDAHO - Mark Vore

• All three typeII teams were dispatched this year and reports back are they did a good job.
• Got about 78 trainees out this year which is about 10 percent of the red carded positions.

Concerns:

• Coordination of fire activity went well. Conference calls needed help.

• Micromanaging done on their fires -- felt RO did not trust judgment of the team assigned.

• Consistency of applying the new federal wildland fire policy.

• Reference guide was not distributed as promised last spring.

• Fire Management Use Teams (FMUT) -- look at this in this Geographic Area -- should we have one or should type I and 11 teams be trained?

• Highly qualified people being used in MAC groups -- could they be used better elsewhere?

• Electronic data transfer

• Use of retirees as AD's -- would like consistent direction.

• Type I teams missed two assignments because the IC was unavailable.

• Will there be a joint type I and lI team meeting? Yes-currently planned for 2OOO.

• Relationships between MAC groups/expanded dispatch/etc.

NORTHWEST MONTANA - Fred Van Hom

• Working on a zone fire prevention plan
• Agreed on a fire restriction plan last year and used it. Worked well
• Fred Van Hom will be zone rep for 1999
• Steve Gauger will be stepping down from Operations Committee -- no replacement yet.

SOUTHWEST MONTANA ZONE - Mike Kopitzke

• For large fire support, the Bitterroot came through SMICC rather than expand themselves.
• Zone had a MAC group.
• Implemented restrictions.
• NRCG Dispatch Study Group was in the Zone.
• Have 14 training sessions planned through the University.

  Issues:

• Activated staging at Missoula Fair Grounds. Union got involved-- Open and closed camp issue and the 8- versus 12-hour pay issue arose. The candy bar issue also came up.
• Dispatch of local government and contractor engine issue -- it is a statewide issue -- not just Southwest Montana Zone

CENTRAL MONTANA ZONE -- Steve Zachry

• The Zone will be making a real effort to try to not duplicate training in the zone -- will send people to various locations throughout the Zone.
• Just getting into burning season -- but some places are pretty wet.
• Have decided to keep the Zone the same size.
• Experienced a normal fire season within the Zone.

SOUTHCENTRAL MONTANA ZONE - Bill Breedlove

• Training issue -- the need to get trainees out exists. We are getting better but we still have a ways to go.
• Diana Martin (MT DNRC) will be the new chair next year.
• Federal fire policy -- where are we?
• Gallatin land exchange--will affect the Forest and counties and how we do fire protection. Everyone within the Zone (except the Park) will be affected by the land exchange.

EASTERN MONTANA ZONE - Jerry Chapman

• Prescribed burning program -- have worked out reimburseable work accounts between the agencies. Using the normal resource ordering system through dispatch. Hope to do some coordinated bums south of Glendive yet this fall -- about 12,000 acres (over a 5-year period).
• Fairly active fire season this year.
• Staging area set up at the Metra in Billings. Worked very well.
• Used Northern Cheyenne specialty crews -- they are crews that can be broken into squads. They were well trained and well disciplined and worked very well.
• Working on a charter for the east zone. Trying to get committees up and functioning within the east zone.

Tom Harbour noted an interesting event that happened this year. We are getting good comments back on type II teams. Maybe one of the keys is that we didn't put out way more crews than we probably have the capability to do. Whatever it is that we did, it worked well. It is important for us to remember as we go forward.

NORTH DAKOTA ZONE -- Phil Street

• North Dakota Dispatch Office is under construction and scheduled to have done by end of October/first of November. Have hired a permanent dispatch person who is in place.
• Prescribed fire -- exceeded 30,000 acres in burning which is a significant increase over last year and last year was the most they had ever done.
• Below average wildfire season.

AD/RETIREE ISSUE - Jerry Williams

Reference Handouts: Position Paper prepared by Emmy Ibison

                                  Fax from Phoenix Area Office Forestry re: AD's on fire teams

We got into an issue this year where we had an AD employee act as an IC on a Forest Service incident. The National MAC group had previously sent out a recommendation that AD's not be used for Command or General Staff on Incident Management Teams. The issues we need to discuss have to do with liability --jurisdictional and individual. The other issue has to do with compliance of established direction.

We have gone to our Office of General Council people and have asked for their opinion. They are telling us if we ask the question, we may get an answer we have difficulty accepting.  Jerry has not asked for a formal written opinion at this point.

There is also an OPM issue hanging out. The issue pertains to employees who signed agreements to take the buyout and their reemployment during fire season. The appearance is the agencies and retired employees have found ways to circumvent the system and the employees may be at risk to repay their buyout money. OPM has been making noise they are going to start going back and checking on those.

Fundamentally we are finding a way to make do and it really masks a fundamental workforce program. We are using AD's to get by but we are making do. We really don't have a strategy when we run out of the AD option.

The liability issue is something we should not bury our heads in the sand about.

Equally important is that we need to have a system in place that ensures competency and familiarity and qualifications are in place for AD's and retirees.

Tim Murphy stated we are dealing with two separate issues:

1. The States of Montana and Idaho have gotten into the program of hiring State and/or Federal employees to keep them in the red card system. We have probably created some problems here. Who is verifying qualifications for these individuals? How long should we keep these people in the system? Should there be refresher training to ensure qualifications remain current? What about policy changes such as Federal Wildland Fire Policy - how do retirees and AD's keep current?
2. In the master agreement it says the state of Montana has the lead to work with local government employees. The AD IC we used this summer is a member of a local government fire department - no different than Doug Williams or any other person in a fire department. The State has accepted the responsibility that above the strike team leader these employees will meet the NWCG standards.

Mike Plattes -- if we would have followed the Northern Rockies Mob Guide it states that if the IC is not available, the team stands down. That is the national direction also. The East Zone has a different interpretation. -

This issue is really a workforce issue - who is in the pipeline? How long can we depend on AD's and retirees?

ACTION ITEM: ASK EMMY IBISON TO WORK WITH HER COUNTERPARTS FROM OTHER AGENCIES WITHIN THE GEOGRAPHIC AREA TO FINISH THE POSITION PAPER SHE HAS BEGUN. IDENTIFY POLICIES OR LEGAL AUTHORITIES WHICH MAY PRECLUDE US FROM PUTTING PEOPLE IN CERTAIN POSITIONS AND IDENTIFY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN AGENCIES IF THEY EXIST. IF WE DO CONTINUE TO HIRE AD'S AND RETIREES, FIND OUT WAYS TO BRING THESE PEOPLE ON AND AFFORD THEM ALL THE PROTECTIONS THEY NEED.

ACTION ITEM: LOOK AT THE AD/RETIREE ISSUE FROM THE STANDPOINT OF WHO CERTIFIES THEY ARE QUALIFIED AND WHO SIGNS AND MAINTAINS THEIR RED CARD QUALIFICATIONS. HOW LONG DO WE KEEP HIRING FOLKS AND ASSURE OURSELVES THEY ARE STILL COMPETENT FOR THE JOB? SHOULD THERE BE REFRESHER TRAINING ANNUALLY, AND IF SO, HOW MUCH AND WHAT TOPICS SHOULD BE INCLUDED? ASSIGNED TO: TRAINING COMMITTEE

1998 FIRE AND MANAGEMENT REVIEW FOR THE NORTHERN ROCKIES

COORDINATING GROUP - Coy Jemmett

Reference Handout: 1998 Fire and Management Review for the Northern Rockies Coordinating Group

NRCG commissioned a review of fire suppression actions taken during the 1998 fire season within the context of the Federal Wildland Fire Policy. Coy was appointed team leader and the team had the opportunity to visit several incidents while conducting the review.

Overview: the policy is alive and well. Most folks did not see it as a big change--there are some differences--but not really a big change. There is not a clear understanding, appreciation, or implementation of a joint effort on state and federal policies. State policies are not understood by the majority of the people. There is a need for a more common understanding of the policies.

The following areas should have some attention prior to the 1999 fire season:

Policy -- there is not a good understanding, particularly among federal folks of state fire management policies. The policy is probably least understood at the local levels-- communities, subdivisions, etc.

Structural protection -- who protects what, where, and who will pay the bill? Wherever structures were involved, any amount of resources that could be mobilized were. Private landowners think structural protection means you are going to put the fire out in their house and bam. The greatest confusion exists at the very local level. There is also concern at the county/community level with their ability to respond.

Fire use - looking at tremendous growth. There is a strong desire and a willingness to want to do that and there is evidence they are. There is a tremendous desire but we lack some of the tools to do it.

Cooperation -- alive and well.

Safety -- there is no question that safety is number I in the Federal Wildland Fire Policy and it suggests that firefighter and public safety are on equal planes. They are equally important. We saw that happening in the incidents we visited. The thought to consider -- we equip our firefighters, train our firefighters, refresher our firefighters, but what do we do when we say public safety is important. What is our role to help in public safety issues?

The review was a good step forward for NRCG. We have been talking about interagency/interdisciplinary reviews in 1994 and 1996 and we have taken the action to get it done.

ACTION ITEM: NRCG NEEDS TO RECOGNIZE THE MEMBERS OF THE REVIEW TEAM FOR A JOB WELL DONE. ASSIGNED TO: SANDY EVENSON

ACTION ITEM: NRCG DIRECTORS NEED TO REVIEW THE REPORT PRESENTED BY COY JEMMETT. ON A FUTURE CONFERENCE CALL, NRCG WILL APPOINT A GROUP TO DEVELOP AN ACTION PLAN AND FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DISTRIBUTE THE REPORT ACROSS THE GEOGRAPHIC AREA. ASSIGNED TO: NRCG BOARD OF DIRECTORS. DUE DATE: FEBRUARY 1999 (TO TIE BACK TO MACO).

SOUTHWEST MONTANA ZONE DISPATCH ORGANIZATION REVIEW

- Cyndie Hogg

Reference Handout: Southwest Montana Zone Dispatch Organization Review

At the request of NRCG, a review team was assembled to reexamine and validate recommendations made in the 1996 Geographic Area Dispatch/Coordination Task Force Review. The team had the opportunity to visit six initial attack dispatch centers and the southwest Montana Zone Dispatch Center. Following are recommendations and thoughts from the review team:

DISPATCH LAYERS

Recommendations: The five initial attack dispatch centers, specifically Plains, Ronan, Anaconda, Clearwater and Lincoln, remain as is. The review team felt they use the three tiered system as Initial Attack Centers. All support goes directly from the incident to the SDC. This center handles all expanded dispatch operations for these IAC.

Continue to look at opportunities for consolidation and streamlining the dispatch ordering channels.

These units would remain in the SW Montana Zone and participate in the other zone activities including training coordination, daily situation reporting and intelligence dissemination.

The Bitterroot NF Initial Attack Dispatch Center should remain as is. They can handle initial attack and large fire support. They should continue to order initial attack resources direct from their neighbors and continue to expand to provide support for their Type 1 and 2 incidents. The BRF expanded should order direct to NRCC and not through SDC. BRF should remain in the SW Montana Zone and participate with the other zone activities including training coordination, daily situation reporting and intelligence dissemination.

DISPATCH CENTERS

Recommendation:The Missoula Dispatch Center and the Southwest Montana Zone Dispatch Center should combine into one dispatch center. This would not be a colocation but would be integrated into one dispatch center. Staffing from both dispatch centers would be available to assist one another during emerging fire situations until outside help could arrive. If the two centers combine, the review team recommends this center dispatch the initial attack resources in Missoula, specifically the airtankers and smokejumpers currently dispatched by NRCC. This combination would require larger facilities. The review team suggests the Aerial Fire Depot.

Recommendation: The NRCG discuss pros and cons of combining 911 and IAC with the California and Great Basin Coordinating Groups. Both these geographic areas have dispatch centers with combined IA and 91 1.

Recommendation: The review team does not recommend NRCC be combined with any other dispatch center in Missoula. The review team does agree with the progress NRCC has made implementing the recommendations from the 1996 task force review. The State of Montana is fully integrated into the center operations. NRCG needs to proceed with the advertisement and hiring of the Assistant Center Manager. The review team agrees with the proposal that all agencies should have a role in the oversight of NRCC and that this process be formalized.

If the decision to move the initial attack resources to a combined NMC/SDC is agreed, the NRCC could move to another location less disruptive than their current location.

INITIAL ATTACK OFFICES

Recommendation: Continue to look at opportunities for consolidation. Afterjoining the Missoula Dispatch Center with Southwest Montana Zone Dispatch Center, other combinations could take place.

FUNDING OF DISPATCH OPERATIONS

Recommendations: The review team suggests that the cost share methodology is adequate for all parties concerned. This was not an issue for the centers reviewed.

The review team suggests for determining volume of business the NRCG contacts the Rocky Mountain Coordinating Group (RMCG). The RMCG has a useful volume of business model that would be applicable for Northern Rockies Area.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT RESOURCES

Recommendation: SDC along with the county coordinators and each IAC should collectively develop a system of dispatching, tracking and reporting of the local government resources. The review team suggests only one system for off zone dispatch, either using the IAC or a county Duty Officer.

If not already occurring, annual preseason meetings should be scheduled to discuss issues and procedures.

ISSUES AND CONCERNS NOT PART OF THE TASK  

INTELLIGENCE REPORTING

Recommendation: The Initial Attack dispatch centers need to funnel resource availability and other intelligence to the zone dispatch centers. The zone dispatch centers need to consolidate this information and funnel it back to the Initial Attack dispatch centers.

RADIO FREQUENCIES

Recommendation: Efforts to provide good radio coverage for all IA areas should be a priority. Extra radio frequencies would allow air to ground communications to be separate from tactical.

ZONE DISPATCH CENTERS

Recommendation: Pursue a volume of business model for all dispatch centers in the Northern Rockies. Continue to evaluate combining dispatch centers including zone dispatch centers to equalize the distribution of work throughout the Northern Rockies Area.

DISPATCH CENTER OPERATIONS GUIDE, DELEGATION OF AUTHORITY

Recommendation: Annual preparedness visits should verify the presence and use of operations guides. Dispatchers should be empowered to move resources with a signed Delegation of Authority.

STAFFING

Recommendation: NRCG discuss the impacts of year round prescribed fire and staffing by seasonal dispatchers.

NRCG DISCUSSION FOLLOWING CYNDIE'S PRESENTATION:

• We decided we would take the recommendations and see how they would apply across the geographic area.
• report needs to go back to the respective line officers. Should we do the Rocky Mountain workload analysis and then go to the line officers?
• Mike Kopitzke -- there are some things the zone can address right now. Would suggest a letter to line officers with the report and ask them to address within the zone. If there are things they can't address, there would have to be additional studies.
• Mike Plattes -- not really interested in a big workload study unless we have a clear, definite goal in mind.
• We could tie this to the soon to be released NWCG Allocation of Resources report. May give us the opportunity to back up and look at the Zones, Dispatch Centers, in light of the Federal Wildland Fire Policy.
• Another approach would be to tell agencies administrators within the Geographic Ai ea that the findings may very well be indicative of the findings in other Zones. See if line officers would buy off on a workload analysis.
• Suggestion that Jerry Williams, Tim Murphy, and Cory Winnie review the report. Meet within the next month of two (by Thanksgiving). Note: this was not adopted as an action item at this time. If, however, Southwest Montana Zone has major problems with the review, Jerry, Tim and Cory will work with the agency administrators within the Zone to come to agreement on what actions would make sense to implement.

ACTION ITEM: SOUTHWEST MONTANA ZONE (LINE OFFICERS AND BOARD OF DIRECTORS) WILL MEET TO DISCUSS THE REVIEW AND THE PROPOSED RECOMMENDATIONS. THEY WILL GET BACK TO NRCG WITH A POSITION PAPERIDENTIFYING ACTIONS THEY CAN ACCEPT AND THOSE THEY CANNOT (IF THERE ARE ANY). ASSIGNED TO: SOUTHWEST MONTANA ZONE.

TRAINING COMMITTEE -Steve Holden

Handout: Suppression Workforce Requirements Analysis Process (Training Needs Analysis)

• The Training and Operations Committee have met and hammered out preliminary data for the Training Needs Analysis. The Training Committee had trouble getting information from all Zones and in fact, still does not have all the information they need. The Committee took the Northern Idaho Zone's information and extrapolated it across the Region. Work is still continuing on this project.
• Steve will be stepping down as chair of the Training Committee.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND COOPERATOR ENGINES

Reference Handout: September 22, 1998, draft letter to Gasvoda, Waldron, Mason, Verdi, and Waters

The above-mentioned Fire Chief's have written a letter to NRCG expressing dissatisfaction with the number of local fire department engines that are dispatched. The Northwest Contract Firefighters Association has also expressed dissatisfaction

The State of Montana prepared a draft letter to the Fire Chief s. The draft letter contains many facts and figures for dispatches within the Southwest Montana Zone. The problem goes beyond just the Southwest Montana Zone.

ACTION ITEM: DAN O'BRIEN WILL PREPARE A REPLY TO THE FIRE CHIEF'S. THE LETTER WILL STATE THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES NEED TO WORK THROUGH THEIR DISPATCH CENTERS SO THEY FULLY UNDERSTAND HOW THE DISPATCH SYSTEM WORKS AND TO AGREE ON DISPATCH PROCEDURES. ASSIGNED TO: DAN O'BRIEN

FAREWELL TO DAN O'BRIEN AND JOHN PRITCHARD

This is Dan and John's last NRCG meeting. Both of them will be retiring in January 1999. Dan and John were presented with knives from the NRCG Directors. For his swan song, John read a poem he had written to the NRCG Directors. Dan did not read a poem.